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 Convict Conditioning does it work?

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Rincewind



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Join date : 2014-07-08

PostSubject: Convict Conditioning does it work?   Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:13 am

Hi Guys, I wanted to have a discussion about convict conditioning I have made a comitment to master my own body through calisthenics my main goals are to attain a one arm push/chin up and pistol squat.

That being said I have decied to train using the New Blood 2 convict conditioning routine has anyone had any experience with this routine did it work for you what results can I excpect? etc.
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KeyserSoze



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Join date : 2014-07-07

PostSubject: Re: Convict Conditioning does it work?   Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:01 am

I have done a similar routine... and can do pistols, one arm pushups (havent in a while) but not a one arm pullup. Depending on your bodyweight, this exercises can be extremely damaging to tendons and ligaments no matter how much assistance or strengthening work you do. If your goal is just be able to do those three exercises... then by all means do movements that will get you there. But in the long run (in my opinion), you would probably be better off with a program that will get you better at both limit and endurance strength (mixing bodyweight movements with isometrics and weights versions of pistols, pullups, pushups if you have the equipment)
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Rincewind



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PostSubject: Re: Convict Conditioning does it work?   Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:39 am

Thanks Keyser

What do you thing of this for a starting routine? I've put this together using Al Kravadlos books Rasing the bar and Pushing The Limits.

Horizontal Push:
Kneeling Pushups 2 x 30
Horizontal Pull:
Australian pull-up 3 x 5-10
Vertical Push:
Low bar dips 3 x 5-10
Vertical Pull:
Negative chin-up 3 x 5-10
Isometric holds:
Dead hang (overhand) 3 holds of 30 seconds
Tripod 3 holds of 30 seconds
Flex hang (underhand) 3 holds of 30 seconds
Frog/Crow stand 3 holds of 30 seconds
Beginner Bridge 3 holds of 30 seconds
Core work:
Lying knee tucks 3 x 10
Bench Squat 2 x 30
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KeyserSoze



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PostSubject: Re: Convict Conditioning does it work?   Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:42 am

Rincewind

Are you new to calisthenics? If so this looks like a great beginner routine! I would def add more leg work in like Box pistols, isometrics squats, etc.

Also, instead of the dips try pike pushups if you can... they are really good for the shoulders.
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KeyserSoze



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PostSubject: Re: Convict Conditioning does it work?   Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:45 am

Also,

What are your long term goals? Muscle/strength building or endurance for fitness? That will impact how you should train long term.
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Rincewind



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PostSubject: Re: Convict Conditioning does it work?   Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:51 am

I've been doing calisthenics for about a year but I have a tendency to f**k around and change routines before I have a chance to see results. So my plan was to work from dips to muscle ups then hopefully I'll be able to hold a handstand and do handstand pushups for reps. My main goal is to get to 8% body fat then bulk to around 225lb (I'm 15% fat at around 180 right now)
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KeyserSoze



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PostSubject: Re: Convict Conditioning does it work?   Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:59 am

I am working on handstands myself! I am 195 right now, relatively lean and am I big fan of the KISS method (keep it simple stupid).

Stick to a plan and focus on main areas:

Chest, shoulder, triceps : pick one or two that work the best

Back width and thickness: pullups and Australian pullups, etc.

Legs: squats, bulgarian squats, iso squats, pistols.

Stick to this focus for a few months and see what happens. Muscle confusion is a myth.

Out of curiosity? Why bulk to 225? If youre 180 now you would probably be a fat F if you got to 225 and losing the weight would be incredibly hard. Bulking is overrated in my opinion.
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Rincewind



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PostSubject: Re: Convict Conditioning does it work?   Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:13 am

I mean bulk to 225 while staying as close to 8% body fat as I can I want to be a big guy who people can tell works out Smile

So would you drop the isometric holds from my workout and just add maybe lunges and some isometrics for the legs? BTW the bench squat is a progression to pistol/shrimp squats I won't be just doing bench squats forever Smile
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KeyserSoze



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PostSubject: Re: Convict Conditioning does it work?   Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:22 am

225 at 8% bodyfat if youre naturally around 180 would require some serious gear, if that's what youre into ( I am not). Youre essentially saying you want to gain 40 pounds on muscle while losing fat. I have never met you or seen you but at your current size that is probably out of your genetic potential (and most people on earth).

A good friend of mine who did strongman and powerlifting comps was very strong at 200lbs before he starting on gear. He ate A LOT and lifted like a machine and got to 250 and was strong as hell but VERY heavy... he actually gave himself sleep apnea. He got off for a while and got down to about 230... he looked really good but was nowhere near 8%. Just a real life example.
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Rincewind



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PostSubject: Re: Convict Conditioning does it work?   Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:29 am

I'm not planning on juicing at all thanks for the example maybe I'll have to reevaluate that particular goal. Would you be so kind as to give me an example routine please? I get a bit blinded by bro science at times with regards to reps etc.
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KeyserSoze



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PostSubject: Re: Convict Conditioning does it work?   Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:33 am

Of course, no worries I love this stuff and no bro science here... give me a bit, I am actually working haha
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Rincewind



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PostSubject: Re: Convict Conditioning does it work?   Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:19 pm

Nice one thanks a lot. Haha no worries good to see such a nice friendly community.
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KeyserSoze



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PostSubject: Re: Convict Conditioning does it work?   Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:54 pm

Will make one up tonight. It will be pretty detailed
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1stratos1

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PostSubject: Re: Convict Conditioning does it work?   Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:55 pm

I would love to see what KeyserSoze's routine suggestion would look like but till then i think i could give my opinion as well.

1st of all it also depends on ur time and effort u want/have.
If u have plenty of time u could easily split upper body and lower body and workout like 5 times per week 2 upper body 2 lower 1 either upper lower or both. Maybe its too much.. u wont know till u try out, and the same goes for every routine, if u dont give it a try u wont know if its good or not... many routines looks promising, the thing is that the biggest part IMO is the effort. If u give it all then there is no way not to progress.

I think effort is what matters most to progress and routine is mostly matters to where u get good at. I mean u maybe want to get 1 arm pull up, the best way will be 1arm holds, negatives , archer pull ups and maybe weighted pull ups, but if u do normal pull ups or muscle ups doesnt mean u arent progressing, just u dont progress much for the 1arm pull up but mostly for other parts.

One easy way to workout is to max out, IE:
maxing out every set
4set pull ups
4set dips
3set chin ups
3set diamond push ups
2set australian pull ups
2set push ups
with rest like 3-4 min between exercices and u can rest 1-2 more mins when changing exercices.
u could also add soem core exercices at the end, some hanging knee raises or leg raises, lying leg raises and some plank ie
3 super sets of 10hanging knee raises each side = 1 rep
10 lying leg raises
30sec plank or 1 min if its easy and on last set u max out on the plank.

This routine would be difficult for everyone as maxing out is really grueling but good here and there. U can easily go near max out on these sets and maybe once in a while max out on 1st set.

This is just an example and some random thoughts, hope it helps Smile

_________________
Goals: Be able to do bar-barians requirements in less than 10 mins, 10 good form one hand push ups, 15 pistols, Be able to do one hand holds on bar and controlled negatives, 1 min hanging l-sit, backlever hold for 5+ secs, advanced tucked FL for 5+ secs, advanced tucked planche for 8+secs etc etc

Long Goal (till summer): My 1st OAC,good BL hold, FL hold, bent arm planche, free handstand push ups, l-sit to handstand on handles, v-sit hold on floor
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KeyserSoze



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PostSubject: Re: Convict Conditioning does it work?   Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:04 pm

Awesome routine!!! I am finishing mine (working really hard at work today let me tell you haha). It is different and more hypertrophy focused for those looking to train for muscle building moreso than more specific skilled movements (like one armed chins, pushups, etc.)

Stay Tuned
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KeyserSoze



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PostSubject: Re: Convict Conditioning does it work?   Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:35 pm

I am a big proponent of high intensity training. I tend to take bodybuilding methodologies and convert them to calisthenics (time under tension, progressive overload, drop sets, and very importantly rest pause sets). Calisthenics do not have to be endurance exercises of endless reps (unless you want them to be). They can be used, and have been for centuries to build a lot of muscle and size. Not to say just doing a lot of pushups and pullups will not get you in good shape, it just depends on your goals. Your muscles need progressive resistance in order to grow. In weightlifting this is essentially adding weight to the bar. In calisthenics, this can be changing angles, creating more Time Under Tension (listed below) or adding resistance (vest, freeweights on dip belt, resistance bands).
Before I get into the split routine, let me explain what a rest pause set is.
-Basically a rest pause set is three mini sets in one, each separated by a brief rest period, hence the high intensity theme. Rest pause sets are very prominent in Doggcrapp training (something I would recommend after 3+ years of consistent training).
The point
Rest pause set is one set to form failure, 20 second break (or 20 breaths), then another set to form failure, another 20 seconds, and a final set to form failure with a slow negative after the last rep.
A rest pause set of pushups might look like: 20, 9-11, 4-5. As you can see the second and third sets are definitely less in number, roughly half.
Remember this is form failure, not total muscular failure. When your form breaks down stop.
I do every bodyweight pushing and some pulling reps with Maximum Time under tension: check it out here: Check out Maximum TUT online
However, if you cannot do 50 normal pushups I would hold off on TUT and just focus on learning form and reps.
I also keep in mind my rep cadence, usually following a 212 temp (on a pushup would be 2 seconds down, one second pause at bottom and two second push up). Keeping in mind the tempo of the movements make them more challenging and engage the muscles more (especially when coupled with maximum TUT).

This is a basic routine I used for a long time and had good results

Push/Pull/Squat Split
Workout Push:
Incline pushups: Rest pause, 212 count (work these you can get 15 reps for the first set of the rest pause set, then either get some resistance bands, angle or change the tempo.. 312, 511, make it interesting).
Flat pushups: Same set/rep as above
Pike Pushups: Same set rep as above, but you can also change your angle to make it more challenging
Close grip pushups: 212 tempo 3 sets to form failure.

Pull Day:
Pullups: Unless you can do 20+, do not worry TOO much about tempo. Just do them in a controlled manner (No excessive kipping, swinging, or not starting from a dead hang). You should also remember to lower yourself in a controlled way don’t just drop back.
(Do 4 sets to form failure, with 2 min in between sets) When you get to 20 pullups add some weight or if you can’t change the tempo and/or increase TUT.
Australian Pullups: 3 sets to failure 212 tempo (pull bar to just below pecs) 1 min break in between sets
Australian pullups: 2 sets to failure 212 tempo (Pull bar to neck height) 1 min break in between sets
Biceps: Close grip chins, rest pause style

Legs:
Squats: 3 sets of 50
Bulgarian Split Squats: Done like this,
I usually do them with a heavy resistance band, sets of 20+ slow and controlled. My legs respond a lot better to high volume, short rest periods with forced reps
Isometric close grip bodyweight squats: 20 squats, followed by a 20 sec isometric hold at the bottom, then a 20 sec rest. Then 19 reps, 19 sec pause, 19 second rest… all the way to 1. This HURTS.

How I mix it up is this

Monday: Push
Wednesday: Pull
Friday: Push
Saturday: Legs
Following week:
Monday: Pull
Wednesday: Push
Friday: Pull
Saturday: Legs

And so on… so you are hitting push twice one week and pull the other week. Keeps it fresh.
As for abs, I usually do these at night on my off days (hanging leg raises). And I also sometimes do legs twice a week with abs (more fast paced for cardio).
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Rincewind



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PostSubject: Re: Convict Conditioning does it work?   Tue Jul 08, 2014 6:47 pm

Wow thanks for the amazing information guys I'll give it a read tomorrow and let you guys know what I think!
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Rincewind



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PostSubject: Re: Convict Conditioning does it work?   Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:37 pm

keyser thats an amazingly detailed routine may I ask what you training back ground is because you certainly seem to know your stuff! Also anyone have any opinions on YAYOG?
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KeyserSoze



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PostSubject: Re: Convict Conditioning does it work?   Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:59 pm

Rincewind,

Thanks for the compliment, I just geek out to this stuff haha. I basically started when I was a senior in high school doing calisthenics after reading the book Pushing Yourself to Power. I progressed well and went from about 145lbs at 6 feet to about 160 in a short amount of time.

I was off an on until I entered college, then I did a lot of powerlifiting style workouts, which I credit a lot to my knowledge and it really helped me mentally and physically. I got out of school at about 185-190lbs (strong and lean but had some college beer weight).

I messed around with free weights for the new few years and over the last 2 years I have been doing simply weighted and unweighted calisthenics and also squats. I am about 195 now but a lot leaner and bigger. I workout at home and in parks when permissible and love talking with people about fitness and nutrition (obviously).
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