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Elite-Bars

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PostSubject: HELP PLEASE...   Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:16 am

Hi All.

Just wanted to ask advice from you Pros about workout routines.

So I've been doing the same workout for two weeks on my power tower.

4 sets each of in order, Pullups, Dips, Chinups (Bicep ones) and Pushups.

I am happy I mean I think it's a good workout. 3 times a week and on the 'other days' I do legs and Abs.

Thing is, when I happen to do maybe fewer reps in a workout than my previous one, excuse me but I get Fucking mad and completely demolished, and it's like such a huge obstacle to get over.

Is it true you plateau?

I was thinking of doing maybe one day Pullups and Pushups, and on the other workout Chinups (Bicep ones) and Dips. I just don't understand how it works. If I try this new thing it means for instance I work less? Or is it better as I may do more reps of those 2 particular exercises ? I can't figure out how much the work counts for improving somehow.

Also, is it a good idea to do like a pyramid workout, like 1-2-3-4-5-6-5-4-3-2-1 pullups?

Basically, I Always do Max out sets. I don't know anymore if it's better to do Fixed sets or max outs. I always thought if you max out you break more tissue or something and work better. I just don't know anymore and I wish some of you could kindly explaining more about muscle recovery and growth, If anyone can, as there's some true Pros and Experienced wise champs here, I admire you all and wish to improve...
f**k I can only do 14 pullups straight, is that s**t?

Thankyou very Much in advance. Tomorrow I'll try the same workout again and se how it goes...

Thankyou for reading.
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Fed X

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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:23 pm

you shouldnt be burning out or going to failure on every set. Youre at a plateau so a restricted number of sets with a restricted number of reps will def have you exhausted... Try ladders or pyramids and you should be able to total really as many reps as you can handle with out burn out... Also when doing ladders time isnt really important... completing them all is what really counts... also it wouldnt be a bad idea to alternate between Chin Ups & Pull Ups and dirrent grips simultaneously while performing the ladders or pyramids or any other sets that you do... Chin Ups = upper body squats.. Weights are also great way to move past a plateau... Heres an idea... You mentioned that you can do 14 BW Pull Ups.. so take 20-40lbs or what ever you can bang out 10 reps with comfortably and aim for 10 reps and then do 10 BW Pull Ups for as many sets as possible. Generally 3-10 sets... and each week add 2-5lbs and more reps, dosent matter how many reps just at least one rep because whether your increasing weight or reps the key is progression. You could also to sets of 10 BW Pull Ups and Chin Ups repeatedly through out your day follwing GTG logic... if youre at home on a bus stop or walking down the street or wherever you find a suitable bar... just make sure that you allow yourself enough rest time between each set. Id also continue with the Dips & Push Ups and the lower body training.. Squats will gear you for all kinds of training


Last edited by beasty boy on Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:43 pm

The only reason for hitting a plateau is that there is something wrong. Nutrition is not 100% dialed, bad sleep habits, insufficient recovery. Fried CNS = crock of s**t...no such thing.

If you are getting enough sleep, eating the perfect diet for you then you will have kick a$$ workouts all the time/ every time. The problem is that some people do not realize or believe just how important your nutrition is in relation to performance. Or they are not willing to make the changes necessary.

1. Remove all sugar, high fructose corn syrup and refined flours from diet.
2. Eat absolutely no premade foods (think about it. these foods are made to make a profit for the company who makes them or resturant or what ever, not to benefit you)*
3. Train fasted (gives you the fastest results possible)
4. Eat organic (expensive yes, but how important is your health really?)
5. Drink filtered water. No sports drinks!
6. Eat loads of fruit and veggies.
7. Supplement with beneficial nutrients that will be hard to get in sufficient quantities thru diet alone. Read the research papers on the supplements you want to take. If there are none then dont take it.

If you are doing all these things, getting enough rest, and have allowed sufficient recovery time you wont have another bad workout.


Disclaimer: The above is my opinion based on my experience and perspective. And as stated as my opinion I would rather not debate it.

Cheers and hope it helps

* - I eat organic premade peanut butter, and Ezekiel bread.
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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:02 pm

NGN inbox me some more nutrition ideas
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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:00 pm

beasty boy wrote:
NGN inbox me some more nutrition ideas

Hey bro,
I laid it all out in the above post. Food wise I have laid it out on my log. Supplement stack was posted in the nutrition section.
Lemme know if you got any questions.

I primarily get my carbs from fruit, a 40oz smoothie after a hard workout.
recently added maca root and yams per ironloo suggestion.
lots o watermelon(good source of natural citruline) I juice the rinds too.

Veggies: whatever you can get organic. I dont eat potatoes besides the yams. kimchi (superfood)

Protein: whatever you can get organic, eggs, chicken thighs, grass fed beef. supplement with whey protein because its sometimes hard to eat enough meat and its also expensive to eat organic meats.

For energy make sure and get enough b vitamins, co-q10, maca root.

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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:11 pm

Im going to start juicing and smoothies definitely
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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:24 pm

For goodness sake...if its got an ingredients list of more than 3 things and some of the words are hard to pronounce dont put it in your body...the s**t is toxic. You want your body repairing and building new muscle, not wasting energy filtering out the crap you put in it.
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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:06 pm

Guys, Thankyou Very Much both of you for repling.

Yeah, I'm trying to get my nutrition better and better, for instance no soft drinks and any type of crap and I drink a lot of water milk and eat quite some fruit. I am at the campus everyday so all I have is a sandwich for lunch, usually cheese and ham and some mayo.

As for training fasted,that sounds interesting bro, so you mean, a good time to train is between maybe lunch and dinner for instance? just before you start getting hungry? I usually train at 6-7 pm so that's about it I guess.

I'm just gonna workout now after Sunday rest. I am still not sure what to do and it sucks.It's as if I'm afraid to change my routine, I know it's stupid, but I just worry maybe It won't work or something. I want to try the Pyramid workout and see how I feel.

All I based my workout on is if the muscles burn atleast a bit the next day, otherwise it means I didn't brake any tissue and what's the point then right? I wonder if the pyramid type will do me any good... And yeah, I will buy me some ankle straps as soon as possible, that will be a good improvement I think ^_^


LAST QUESTION, lol and then I'll stop ranting to yall sorry:

If I do the pyramid workout now, shall i continue doing all 4 exercises I do in one day? Or maybe do for example: "Only "Pullups/Dips on Monday and Chinups/Pushups Wednesday? I don't understad if in that way I'm working Less, or if I'm doing less but more intense? What do you reckon is better, all upper body 3 times per week or 2 parts each workout? Only advantage is that in free body exercises often you use many muscle groups anyway right...

Also, I should do as many pyramids I can decreasing everytime? say up to 1-2-1?

Thankyou so Much guys for your words God Bless you and have a Nice day, and Thankyou in advance if anyone reads my second boring post Smile
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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:39 pm

Hi again =)

Just to let yall know for the record I tried the pyramid workout and I'm pretty surprised and curious of the results. I made a thread in the training Log section if you want to see.

In all Honesty, I'm just asking this to you guys who are more advanced than me, do you think the pyramid workout is better than the always max out set workout personally? Which one improves the highest reps you can do and helps muscle growth better?

I know these questions are too general almost impossible to answer as we're all so different and each person has a different body type and nutrition and rest and everything, but generally, what do you guys do?

I got basically Triple the number of my usual workout with this method, (46 pullups/ 89 dips), seems awesome but it's just another style of workout I guess. I wonder if my max out in one set will get higher in time like this.
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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:48 pm

You don't need pyramids yet, just keep doing the traditional sets adding reps doing close to maxouts.Make sure to keep rest time the exact same on maxout days,endurance days, strength days each one has different rest periods. To know where you are at use strict rest times so when your reps go up its not because your rested more its because you got stronger see.

Ex: Pullups

Maxout days: 5sets x 5 min. rest every set try to stay the same or gain reps if you can.
+
Endurance days: maxout every :30 seconds or 1min. till you can't pull a single pullup, then do max static holds same fashion till you can't hold.
+
Strength days: Weighted say 135lbs. pullups 5setsx 1-5 reps 5-7min rest use this rest to gain as much strength in between to stay near your previous set.

These are basic sets.
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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:50 am

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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:39 pm

beasty boy wrote:
http://bar-barians.forumotions.net/t4986-improving-pullup-strength

Thanks Man, I read all the thread.

Well, I have to say, I still feel a bit confused and honestly a little 'bothered', simply because the more I read, the more I find different opinions everytime and I don't know what to do.

For atleast a Year I've been training with failure sets. And now suddenly it's the Worse thing you could do. I just don't know anymore.
Also it said not to use the Ladder workout too often either.
*Shakes Head* I'll just workout and do my best I guess... =(
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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:17 pm

the article pretty much sums it all up
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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:53 pm

Can someone, maybe NGN, state what exactly fasted training is and what the benefits are?! I havent heard of that term before..
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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:04 pm

beasty boy wrote:
the article pretty much sums it all up

Yeah it does. And I read many more on the web after that.

I guess It just feels weird to never reach failure, I have this mentality that I have to do more, but somehow MAYBE I start to see now... When I went to gym it never was failure either, always sets after all...

Tonight I got down to doing 1-2-1 Pullup set right at the end, is that correct?

Thanks again Beasty
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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:22 pm

C'mon guys ... google benefits of fasted training.

Fasted training - working out before you have eaten that day.
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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:36 pm

Elite,

It looks like you are going to have to wade through all the bullshit in the fitness world. Just like the rest of us.

BELOW is my opinion. I am not a doctor or exercise guru.

the lastest bullshit is this so called "fried CNS" crap that is brought on by training to muscle failure. Total bullshit! WTF does a fried CNS really mean anyway? Uhhmmm HELLO! it takes longer to recover from a workout done to failure because more muscle fibers have been damaged dring that workout, that is all. If you feel recovered and ready for a workout but then your work out sucks then your diet is the problem not your CNS for freek sake.
If your muscles arent recovered and ready for a workout, dont expect to be hitting personal bests, and dont be blaming your CNS either.
I train to faiure multiple times per week and the only problem with my central nervous system is putting up with all crap in the fitness world...hahaha
Eat healthy, train hard, sleep well.
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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:24 pm

NGN i agree with most of what your saying, but CNS burnout exist trust me. Good chance it won't happen with calisthenics alone, it takes high stress high volume over a period of time.

Ex: i was doing my 100rep deadlift pyramid starting at 135x 10 ending at 415 x 10 to make 100 rep + 1,000s vest squats a day. Have you ever trained till you collapsed legs gave out fully had no control and had to wait 5 min. until legs came back haha happened every 5mins after collapsing constant.

Give me 7hrs. of your life if you don't believe me i show you CNS burnout its great.

I do it intentionally every now and then and come back much stronger and it wont happen as often after each time.
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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:54 pm

Haha Ironloo,
Yer crazy, I love you for that...I'm not there yet

not gay....just saying
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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:33 am

LoL

Cheers NGN.

Cool. I'll just put up with the bullshit. After all it's like everything else in life, never anything sure or simple.
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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:42 pm

Elite-RunnerUp wrote:
beasty boy wrote:
the article pretty much sums it all up

Yeah it does. And I read many more on the web after that.

I guess It just feels weird to never reach failure, I have this mentality that I have to do more, but somehow MAYBE I start to see now... When I went to gym it never was failure either, always sets after all...

Tonight I got down to doing 1-2-1 Pullup set right at the end, is that correct?

Thanks again Beasty


Pretty much everyone starts with pyramids and GTG. A lot of people are actually against the pyramids and are much more in favor of Ladders instead. I mean really thats it man. If you want to increase reps, endurance etc Just do ladders and dont burn out. You could even add resistance by wearing a vest while doing them.

Keep a plan and a log so that you can track your progress so you dont end up just standing around or stumbling & fumbling through routines. Pyramids are cool and the amount of time that you spend completing them really is irrelavant, but getting over humps can sometimes be very tough and can lead to burning out esp at larger pyramid schemes. Pyramids are great for push ups and dips... so for your dips & pushups add pyramids.

Some would suggest that you stop the dips and push ups and focus on your Pulls but personally I wouldnt. Whats the point? Why stop? Work at getting better at all 3. Turn your Pull Ups into Ladders and your Dips/Push Up into pyramids



so a plan, a log, & do Chin-Pull Up ladders & Dip/Push Pyramids
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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:10 pm

beasty boy wrote:
Elite-RunnerUp wrote:
beasty boy wrote:
the article pretty much sums it all up

Yeah it does. And I read many more on the web after that.

I guess It just feels weird to never reach failure, I have this mentality that I have to do more, but somehow MAYBE I start to see now... When I went to gym it never was failure either, always sets after all...

Tonight I got down to doing 1-2-1 Pullup set right at the end, is that correct?

Thanks again Beasty


Pretty much everyone starts with pyramids and GTG. A lot of people are actually against the pyramids and are much more in favor of Ladders instead. I mean really thats it man. If you want to increase reps, endurance etc Just do ladders and dont burn out. You could even add resistance by wearing a vest while doing them.

Keep a plan and a log so that you can track your progress so you dont end up just standing around or stumbling & fumbling through routines. Pyramids are cool and the amount of time that you spend completing them really is irrelavant, but getting over humps can sometimes be very tough and can lead to burning out esp at larger pyramid schemes. Pyramids are great for push ups and dips... so for your dips & pushups add pyramids.

Some would suggest that you stop the dips and push ups and focus on your Pulls but personally I wouldnt. Whats the point? Why stop? Work at getting better at all 3. Turn your Pull Ups into Ladders and your Dips/Push Up into pyramids



so a plan, a log, & do Chin-Pull Up ladders & Dip/Push Pyramids

Hi beasty Boy Smile

Thankyou So Much for your reply Smile

Yeah, the other night I wrote down a brand new program nice and neat and put it on the wall.

3 workouts, and the other 3 days it's Abs and either Running or Leg Exercises.

I decided that 2 out of 3 workouts are Ladders, once it's Overhand Pullups and Dips, both of them I do till a 1-2-1 maybe, Pullups atleast as they're tougher. And then a Max out to finish it with, altough you suggested maybe not burn out, The final max out does burn me out ^_^

The other one instead I do Bicep Pullups (Chinups) in Ladders, while I do many types of Pushups. Many smaller sets, but like 4 seconds going down and explosive push-up, so I use all the resistance gravity gives.

And on the 3rd day I do 3 Fixed sets of all 4 exercises. Like 3x10 Pullups for example.

I read and learned a lot on this forum and other fitness forums too and I think this workout is more 'Switched up' as many suggest and not static.

This is the best workout I managed to write down till now and I'm quite happy and excited to start a new 6 day round tomorrow and hope to do well ^_^ Such a pity I always get home at 6 pm everyday and am tired tho :S All I look forward to everyday is doing the 30 mins of workout xD

Last thing sorry Smile Do you think the Ladder method will help in time to increase my max out number?

Thankyou

PS: I will buy me a weight belt or some straps next time I have some money and look forward to it ^_^
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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:19 pm

whats the difference between ladders and pyramids? i always thought they were the same thing...
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PostSubject: Re: HELP PLEASE...   Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:34 pm

Vibe95 wrote:
whats the difference between ladders and pyramids? i always thought they were the same thing...

Hey =)

Ladders are usually long sets of many 'steps' with very litle rest in between.
A set may be these Reps for example: 1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2-1 and 15 seconds between each of steps of the Ladder. So you get a big total for sure this way. for instance you get to a max of 5 in the Ladder, and you know the total is the square of 5, so 25. It's easy to keep track of your numbers IMO =)
I personally like it because you have to feel it when you've gotten high enough up the ladder, as you have to be sure you can complete it the other way completely, or else it's stupid isn't it? Smile

Pyramids instead by what I know, is for instance, 3 Sets, and you do 10,8,6 repsfor example.

Usually You'd Increase the weight as you decrease the reps of the next set. It's good for muscle growth. I used to do this type of program when I used to lift weights at gym ages ago.

You can do it bodyweight aswell, just in different ways Smile
Ofcourse the Pyramid can be done upways too, like 4-6-8.

Hope I was clear.
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