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 Circuit Training vs. Regular Training

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Mikey1995



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PostSubject: Circuit Training vs. Regular Training   Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:04 am

Circuit Training vs. Regular Training (3-5 sets each exercise)

what is better for getting a ripped body for summer?

which do you guys do?

what is better overall for calisthenics?

i have no dip bars.. just pullup and pushup
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nguyenquanghung

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PostSubject: Re: Circuit Training vs. Regular Training   Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:50 am

circuit training is better for getting a ripped body
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FPITAS



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PostSubject: Re: Circuit Training vs. Regular Training   Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:12 am

nguyenquanghung wrote:
circuit training is better for getting a ripped body

How so?
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Zeromni

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PostSubject: Re: Circuit Training vs. Regular Training   Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:25 am

i do circuit trading sumtimes with muscle ups sets to handstand push up sets then back and forth with almost no rest besides a few breaths or a drink of water untill i feel burned out. i noticed that overall it increased my strength and endurance and made me feel alot more solid overall but it can be dangerous depending on the workouts you circuit. i think they call it bar hopping you go from one set to another with virtually no rest in between. i do that but through the routine increase the rest time as you fatigue. i do this on good days when i have no injurys as for regular training you can isolate and work on one move to gain or progress the way you want for good direct results. but changing it up and accully keeping a consistent schedule you can perform much better.

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freerunner

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PostSubject: Re: Circuit Training vs. Regular Training   Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:52 pm

I never do circuits.

But I mostly train the movements that are harder for me. When you're doing low reps you need longer rests.

But if you're doing just regular pushups and pullups for high reps circuits will probably work really well.
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FPITAS



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PostSubject: Re: Circuit Training vs. Regular Training   Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:39 pm

I still don't know why circuit training is superior to back sets.
Haven't heard or seen a proper explanation
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Tim

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PostSubject: Re: Circuit Training vs. Regular Training   Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:05 pm

To get ripped, the usual thing is the need to loose the fat you have in order to get a lower body fat percentage. Diet and Exercise are the best way to do it. Assuming your diet is clean, the next step is exercise.

To maximise loosing fat you want to keep your heart at 50%-60% of its Max (below the Cardio limit!!) For as long as possible. Circuit trading is better at raising your heart rate AND sustaining it at the raised level for a longer period of time.

Conventional training will give peeks and troughs, thus lowering fat burning potential.
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PostSubject: Re: Circuit Training vs. Regular Training   Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:00 am

Tim wrote:
To get ripped, the usual thing is the need to loose the fat you have in order to get a lower body fat percentage. Diet and Exercise are the best way to do it. Assuming your diet is clean, the next step is exercise.

To maximise loosing fat you want to keep your heart at 50%-60% of its Max (below the Cardio limit!!) For as long as possible. Circuit trading is better at raising your heart rate AND sustaining it at the raised level for a longer period of time.

Conventional training will give peeks and troughs, thus lowering fat burning potential.




It’s a very common misconception.
Elevated heart rate and cardiovascular activity (that is, activity of the internal body not the person) are two mutually exclusive things.

Short explanation of what “cardio” is when compared to non-cardio:

• During aerobic activity, heart rate increases, stroke volume increases, and cardiac output greatly increases. Oxygen extraction increases, peripheral vascular resistance drops, and blood pressure changes with a rise in systolic and a drop in diastolic.

• At the other end of the spectrum is isometric exercise, which results in heart rate increase, but stroke volume remains the same due to increases in vascular resistance, and cardiac output rises only a bit. Both systolic and diastolic pressure rise. Oxygen extraction increases only a bit.

(!) Important to notice that at non-cardio exercises oxygen extraction increases at an insignificant amount.
The reason I want to make this clear is the newly “fashioned” rubbish of the so called “after burner affect” which has been taken completely out of proportion by people who never read a case study in their lives and probably know as much science as a termite.
It does exist and it does burn calories up to a certain amount but per a normal workout where you would burn 200-500 calories on average the added “after burn” affect is measured by an added 20-30 calories with NO affect for the remaining 24 hours or rubbish of that sort.


Conclusion:

There is a big difference between the two methods of increasing heart rate. I would classify aerobic activity here as cardio, and isometric anaerobic activity here as non-cardio.

(!) Resistance training is somewhere in the middle, depending on whether you are doing high rep low weight or low weights with high reps.

Here we face a question, assuming someone is being threatened by a gun and immediately his heart rate jumps through the roof – is it cardio?
Now, assuming he is being held at gun point for 20 minutes and throughout this entire time his heart rate is at 80% above its normal rate – does that mean that he did cardio for 20 minutes?

The answer is – no.
There was no aerobic activity since no muscles had to be “fuelled” by fast-rate oxygenation!
For that reason, while it is “possible” in theory to do cardio if you do body weight exercises such as Push-ups and Pull-ups etc. in practicality you’ll have to do them at a rate that is more or less 40-50 per minute for an average grown male and take no rest for at least 20 minutes (since fat and sugar burning starts roughly 8 minutes within the activity and at ~60-80% max heart rate.
Simple mathematics will show you that you’ll have to do… roughly 1000 to 2000 pull-ups within that given time in order for it to be considered proper cardio.
Needless to point out – this is hardly realistic or sensible to consider.

Despite what people believe, want to believe, think they know or have opinions on – real proper cardio is limited to very few “activities” and can only be validated by the measurement of oxygen intake per speed and difficulty level.
Now, since most of us are not interested in making it into a profession, suffice here to say that you should reach full “cardiac” capacity as long as you stick to these exercises and the “signs”.

Exercises:

• Riding a bicycle
• Riding a stationary bicycle (preferred)
• Skipping rope
• Running

(!) If you are in terrible shape walking will be a good choice but if you’re in decent shape, young, healthy and thin walking is likely to do precisely – nothing!

Signs:
(These are not the scientific methods, yes!? These are simple ways a common person can “validate” that he did indeed reach – cardio)

• Sweat appears several minutes into the activity and remains throughout the activity
• Measured heart rate is at 50-80% max rate (220-age~)
• You “feel” that you are close to “losing your breath” while still being able to conduct a decent verbal conversation (if you can’t, it’s a bad sign that your physical activity surpasses your current ability to oxygenate your blood at its current circular rate)

You could also do something in the form of the ‘insanity’ but scientifically speaking if you want to limit the amount of time you spend doing it and maximize your results you are better off choosing one of the above exercises

Reasons that I could think of why circuit training can be effective:

Assuming you don’t add weight (rucksack, weight-vest, weight plates) and only do the exercises a-la-natural than adding more volume (something circuit training should do) will indeed build more muscle.
(Without going into the subject of fatigue)
So, yes, that can be one example, again, assuming you have a thing for body weight training only.

By the way, regarding your comment…
There is simply no correlation between getting “yoked” by losing body fat percentage and building further muscle mass.
According to several people here, circuit training is better for building muscle. Hence my question – how so?
So far I haven’t seen any logical reason.
That is not to say there isn’t one, it’s just hasn’t been presented but losing fat is not one of them.
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Tim

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PostSubject: Re: Circuit Training vs. Regular Training   Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:17 am

FPITAS wrote:

It’s a very common misconception.
Elevated heart rate and cardiovascular activity (that is, activity of the internal body not the person) are two mutually exclusive things.

They are not mutually exclusive, raised heartrate does not imply cardio (as adrenaline will increase it - eg, your gun story) However cardio will increase heart rate. Ergo they are not independent of each other, the relationship is one way

Since the kind of forum we're on, and the nature of the question involved it's pretty easy to distinguish the raised heart rate i was talking about was exercise related. And as a simple measure (as you yourself point out, tracking o2 stats is hard when not in a medical/professional environment...) tracking your heartrate is quite a good one... odds are you will be sweating and short of breath from SUSTAINED exercise (circuits is a form of sustained exercise)

As to the original question, doing cardio will not help as when you are truely doing a CV exercise you will burn a greater proportion of glucose than fat in comparison to a lower intensity, lower heart rate workout.

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PostSubject: Re: Circuit Training vs. Regular Training   Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:48 am

Forget about the words “mutually exclusive”… may not have been the best choice for words… the point I was trying to make is that there is no realistic way for circuit training to be more effective at burning fat than proper cardio.

And regarding the comment that it’s better for building muscle – like I said, I haven’t heard a reasonable reason.

I mean, if your goal is to lose fat in order to get ripped and yoked than proper cardio and calories deficiency will obviously serve you about 500% better than circuit training… and, if you’re talking about better muscle mass builders then BW-volume VS Weighted Calisthenics is the real topic… not fat loss or system VS system.. what you’re basically talking about is weighted VS BW-volume.

Tim wrote:
As to the original question, doing cardio will not help as when you are truely doing a CV exercise you will burn a greater proportion of glucose than fat in comparison to a lower intensity, lower heart rate workout.

Yes and no.
It is Cardio, it’s just Low Intensity Cardio… but it’s still well within the Cardio realm.

If you’re interested (as I understood from your remark you feel that it’s outside of this forum’s scope… I see it differently but it’s your decision) I can PM you a list of studies on that regard.
I have over 150 of them at reference points and you can find quite a bit on PubMad as well as on G-Scholar.
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Tim

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PostSubject: Re: Circuit Training vs. Regular Training   Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:36 am

FPITAS wrote:

And regarding the comment that it’s better for building muscle – like I said, I haven’t heard a reasonable reason.
when were we talking about the difference between the two for building muscle?... I may have just missed something earlier, but a significant part of "getting ripped" is going to be fat loss... enabling your abs to be seen etc.... Circuits are better than straight sets for fat loss as you can maintain a higher heart rate for longer - switching between pull-ups/push-ups/squats/sprints etc in order to keep your heartrate up but letting your muscles rest.

Which is better for building muscle is an entirely different question... Smile



Quote :

Yes and no.
It is Cardio, it’s just Low Intensity Cardio… but it’s still well within the Cardio realm.
As far as I was aware the 50-60% range of heart rate is good for CV was akin to saying lifting 2kg weights is good to build muscle... It will a bit, but doesn't put your CV system under the necessary strain it requires in order to properly build up your CV.


Quote :

I mean, if your goal is to lose fat in order to get ripped and yoked than proper cardio and calories deficiency will obviously serve you about 500% better than circuit training…
Regardless of what you do, you need to have a calorie deficit (or at least clean up your diet... though cleaning up would normally lead to a deficit..) so that is a moot point. If we are to assume your proper cardio is the high heart rate band... 70%+ then you are burning around 15% Fat in comparison to around 30+% at a lower heart rate. A circuit designed to keep heartrate at a lower intensity would be better here... (Note that circuits aren't just pull-ups/dips....) A jog/low intensity cycling keeping heartrate at 50% will however be better than circuits at this point... for fat loss.


Quote :

If you’re interested (as I understood from your remark you feel that it’s outside of this forum’s scope… I see it differently but it’s your decision) I can PM you a list of studies on that regard.
I have over 150 of them at reference points and you can find quite a bit on PubMad as well as on G-Scholar.

The comment about the forum was more that saying that there are other ways to raise your heart rate (eg the gun) was a bit pointless... Wink even isometric holds aren't going to raise your heart rate by that much. (Though it would raise it)

The list of studies would be nice though Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Circuit Training vs. Regular Training   Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:55 am

Friend,

I’ll be honest... wah? Wink

Tim wrote:

when were we talking about the difference between the two for building muscle?...

Umm, all along.
This entire thing was based on my previously asked question of why people consider circuit training to be better for building muscle than normal set training.


Now, at the risk of repeating myself for the third time:

I wasn’t contradicting anyone when they say that circuit training will burn more fat albeit at a redundant pace when compared to proper cardio.
There is only so much you can burn as long as you don’t reach cardio level.
The difference between the “same” workout” but one being trained as back to back sets while the other as a circuit (in terms of fat lose) will be roughly 20-30 calories more.

People, or rather, young people as that assume many things simply because their life style hasn’t been pedestrianated just yet (I believe I just invented a word) and that’s a common problem.
As long as you workout a lot, play basketball or football, run around in the beach etc…
You’ll lose fat since it’s accumulative – but, it has nothing to do with why or how fat is being burned as a process.

Now, for third time, I don’t know your background. You said some things that makes it clear that you have good foundations but… elevated heart rate on its own does not burn more fat at a relevant amount. For the most part it’s not even realistically measurable.
Please read the explanation from 2 posts ago. It’s coming directly from the books.
V˙O2R has to be in direct correlation to muscle activity level and heart rate – not heart rate on its own with nothing else.
If there is no need to fuel any muscles there is no need to burn fat, it doesn’t matter if your heart rate hits 220, it’s not going to change it… in fact, if it were working like that we would all be dead along time ago (unless you were theoretically living an impossibly uneventful life).

Tim wrote:

As far as I was aware the 50-60% range of heart rate is good for CV was akin to saying lifting 2kg weights is good to build muscle... It will a bit, but doesn't put your CV system under the necessary strain it requires in order to properly build up your CV.

Yes and no.
Steady pace heart rate cardio (notice it still needs to be well inside the cardio limit) doesn’t “burn” more fat than “fast” cardio.
Steady pace cardio burns less if you compare it by one time measurement to another – the point though is that since you also deplete glycogen faster and blood glucose can only come from food you’ll, evidently, have to stop (from being “tired”) a lo sooner and therefore steady pace will, in the long run, help you burn more.

But like anything considering that as an axiom without knowing what it’s based on makes it irrelevant.
So what the studies based it on?
They based it on 20 minutes of high intensity cardio and HIIT against 3 hours of steady cardio.
Unless you have 3 hours a day to do cardio and are willing to do cardio so much, well, the whole debate is redundant right at the out set.

I think you’ll find that most people can fit a 20min session 3-6 times in their weekly schedule. I doubt many people can afford 21 hours in a week!

Tim wrote:
FPITAS wrote:

I mean, if your goal is to lose fat in order to get ripped and yoked than proper cardio and calories deficiency will obviously serve you about 500% better than circuit training…
Regardless of what you do, you need to have a calorie deficit

Sure.
Calorie deficit comes first.
My point on fat loss was that if that is your goal than aside from calorie deficit you’ll be a world of difference better served by simply doing cardio and maintain your normal Calisthenics session as is.
The rough estimation as per an average 200-500 calorie burn from an average workout when compared to doing cardio instead is an increase of roughly 500% in fat loss.
I don’t think that it takes a genius to understand that if fat loss is your goal you might as well go for the cardio Wink

• This forum doesn’t accept links when being copy-pasted so please send me your email address and I’ll send you my references.
My email is BodyWeightRoutines@gmail.com
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Tim

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PostSubject: Re: Circuit Training vs. Regular Training   Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:19 am

FPITAS wrote:
Friend,

I’ll be honest... wah? Wink

Tim wrote:

when were we talking about the difference between the two for building muscle?...

Umm, all along.
This entire thing was based on my previously asked question of why people consider circuit training to be better for building muscle than normal set training.

There was meant to be a solely in there somewhere ^_^ ... as in the question wasn't just about building muscle but looking ripped which really must include some level of fat loss as well... Smile (unless the guy already has little to no fat on him, though that is rare Smile )



Quote :

The difference between the “same” workout” but one being trained as back to back sets while the other as a circuit (in terms of fat lose) will be roughly 20-30 calories more.

This surpirses me, and possibly there may be confusion in the definition of Circuit training...

From my perspective, circuit training is a series of exercises (not limited to a bar*) that is done in a set order and repeated. *These exercises would tend to hit the entire body and would involve some form of cardio specific element. A very (very) simple example would be 1min per exercise

pull-ups
squats
dips
sprints
sit-ups
skipping

I would have assumed this would burn a significantly higher amount of calories in comparison to a standard calisthenics workout where you would drop the skipping/sprints...

I have the feeling you might be thinking more of a superset where you would do something akin to a 1-5-1 pyramid doing both pull-ups and dips where as soon as you finish the required pull-ups you drop straight into the dips set...


Quote :
Now, for third time, I don’t know your background. You said some things that makes it clear that you have good foundations but… elevated heart rate on its own does not burn more fat at a relevant amount. other stuff
We're already agreed on the point that the heartrate elevation has to be exercise induced, I just assumed that was taken for granted when i was saying that...

Quote :

But like anything considering that as an axiom without knowing what it’s based on makes it irrelevant.
So what the studies based it on?
They based it on 20 minutes of high intensity cardio and HIIT against 3 hours of steady cardio.
Unless you have 3 hours a day to do cardio and are willing to do cardio so much, well, the whole debate is redundant right at the out set.
That seems like quite a bias that research team has put on cardio, ...insert grumbling about scientists not doing fair experiments... Any idea what the constraints were? Eg If they were looking at %fat burnt from a 500cal workout as comparing 20 minutes against 3 hours just looks wrong... very wrong...

Quote :

• This forum doesn’t accept links when being copy-pasted so please send me your email address and I’ll send you my references.
My email is BodyWeightRoutines@gmail.com
Emailed Wink
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ironloo

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PostSubject: Re: Circuit Training vs. Regular Training   Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:42 pm

Their is no best to me what ever type of training you do whether weightlifting, calisthenics, or sport you should be doing everything in the filed you chose to be well rounded. Do all methods, variations, learn all skills while gearing towards your current goal either fatloss,muscle gain,maintenance. Circuits are great but for them to be severe you need strength too, point is train everything from all angles.
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PostSubject: Re: Circuit Training vs. Regular Training   Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:51 pm

Hi Tim,

Apologies for the late reply... as I explained in the email... my sternum was cracked by being lifted in a very bad angle.

Re: Circuit...
If you add sprints and skipping you'll butn more calories for sure.
The point though, was that if you do do proper cardio it'll be far more efficient and will free you from doing these things while training.

The difference in calories was specific to exercises that are not cardio based like skipping and sprinting but even then because you don't do them exclusively you will not benefit from them like you would from 20 of cardio.

I believe i told you, i used to be a long distance runner and have 3 awards, I used to measure my oxigen intake and the works... Wink

I'll reply to the rest later on...
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