| | Two solid routines that work. | |
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ChimarraoMate

Posts: 42 Join date: 2010-10-19 Age: 41 Location: Salt Lake City
 | Subject: Two solid routines that work. Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:09 am | |
| So, one of my favorite strength training coaches is Charles Poliquin. He has trained a number of professional athletes and olympic gold medalists. I have used these two routines he has written with great success. I highly recommend them:
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If you can do at least 6 strict form pull-ups then this one is for you:
One effective system I use to improve pull-up performance in more advanced individuals is to do 10 sets of the exercise. If you can do six pull-ups by yourself, divide that by two, so that’s three pull-ups. Do 10 sets of 3 reps. In the next workout you try to increase the total number of reps until you can do 10 sets of 6. The day you can do 10 sets of 6 you’ll be able to do 12 by yourself. I’ve seen trainees accomplish that in as little as three weeks.
I did this when I was at 6 pull-ups and I got to the 12 in a exactly three weeks performing it ones every 5 days. Now, what it does not tell you is where it got it's roots from. This is a classic GVT (German Volume Training) routine. I superset this with weighted dips. As a result both of them went through the roof. Keep the motion as slow as is realistic. I used 1-2 seconds on the pull and 4-5 seconds on the release. Make sure chin is above the bar at the top and arms are fully extended at the bottom. You will not use momentum with this routine or you will just be cheating yourself. By itself you can do 60-90 seconds rest between sets. If you superset it with dips then use 90 seconds rest between all exercises. You will likely find yourself failing in the 5th or 6th set. That is normal. Continue to do all 10 sets allowing yourself to hit failure in each set. Just do not add reps. Also you may find that on the 8th or 9th set you will pull one more rep than the 7th set. When you can do all 10 sets of each exercise (so 10 sets of pull-ups superset with 10 sets of dips), without missing any of your target reps, then you will be ready to add a rep. I would not take this above 10 reps per set. If you are looking to add mass then go to 10 reps per set and start adding weight instead of reps. If you are looking for strength gains as a priority then start adding weight after you can do 10 sets of 6 reps. I also would not do this routine for more than 6 weeks or 4 weeks if you are running 5 day cycles of GVT (this will give you 6 of these workouts in that time). Instead do some other routine for 3 weeks and then you can return to this program. You can research GVT on the internet for incorporating a complete GVT routine in your weekly strength training.
Also, research the advance GVT workouts. There is a good prescription in getting over plateaus for the advance athlete using a 10 set method that pyramids weight and reps across many weeks.
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If you can perform 12 Strict form chins then this one is for you:
The Gymnast's Extended Set Back Routine
This routine is for the advanced trainee only, it is inspired by the routines that Olympic gymnasts do to condition their enormous backs. You must be able to do 12 strict form shoulder width supinated chins, to do this routine.
1. Wide grip Pull-ups , as many reps as possible 2. 10 seconds rest pause 3. Medium grip Pull-ups , as many reps as possible 4. 10 seconds rest pause 5. Medium grip Chin-ups , as many reps as possible 6. 10 seconds rest pause 7. Narrow grip Chin-ups 8. Rest 3 minutes Repeat steps 1 to 8 twice, cry and curse me. |
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raja
Posts: 294 Join date: 2009-11-19 Location: Orlando, Florida
 | Subject: Re: Two solid routines that work. Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:55 am | |
| Poliquin has some great training info. Definitely don't underestimate his knowledge. |
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ChimarraoMate

Posts: 42 Join date: 2010-10-19 Age: 41 Location: Salt Lake City
 | Subject: Re: Two solid routines that work. Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:36 am | |
| | raja wrote: | | Poliquin has some great training info. Definitely don't underestimate his knowledge. |
Absolutely, and if you go to his website and look at the articles titled "Very Dumb Training Recommendations: Part 2". There is a section in there which calls out some big workout failures when doing pull-ups. I have seen a lot of similar ones in these forums. Not pointing any fingers of course. But honestly, if something looks like "WAY TO MUCH" then it probably is. Some times people like to do things because they can, and not because it is wise. I am a believer in proving the impossible is possible, just not a believer in telling someone to do something that will help them, when in reality it will hurt them. If you can do it, then great, you should show it off, that doesn't mean you recommend others to do the same as part of a destructive training routine. Here is a link to that article:
http://www.charlespoliquin.com/ArticlesMultimedia/Articles/Article/308/Very_Dumb_Training_Recommendations_Part_2.aspx |
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1stratos1

Posts: 498 Join date: 2010-11-16 Age: 19 Location: Greece
 | Subject: Re: Two solid routines that work. Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:10 am | |
| Nice routines , well i guess it will be ok if i do it about 2-3 times per week for both pushing and pulling movements? I m thinking to do something like that but changing grip like more wide more narrow , chin up , pull up , neutral between each set so i ll do 10 sets of general pulling movements, how it sounds?
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ChimarraoMate

Posts: 42 Join date: 2010-10-19 Age: 41 Location: Salt Lake City
 | Subject: Re: Two solid routines that work. Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:09 pm | |
| | 1stratos1 wrote: | Nice routines , well i guess it will be ok if i do it about 2-3 times per week for both pushing and pulling movements? I m thinking to do something like that but changing grip like more wide more narrow , chin up , pull up , neutral between each set so i ll do 10 sets of general pulling movements, how it sounds?
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Your suggestion is a common mistake made even by the experts. Although that will stimulate a lot of muscle fibers, that does not work with this 10 sets of 10 or GVT. Charles Poliquin actually discusses this on his site under a new article about GVT. The idea is to work a specific range of motion at a predetermined tempo and rest periods for a full 10 sets. This will cause your body to hypertrophy all muscle fiber types in the range of motion (i.e. Fast Twitch A & B, and Slow Twitch Fibers) and train the CNS for that movement. Keep in mind that with half the reps of your failure set, the first three sets are going to be pretty easy. You will work for the 4th and 5th set. By the 6th through 10th set you will be cursing me. If you switch grips then you will be hitting different muscle fibers and you would have been better off using more reps or weight for each grip with less sets.
Slow tempo Volume training leaves you very sore, so most guys need 5 days minimum to recover. It is a lot of time under tention in a fairly short amount of time.
Save the mixed grip work for other routines. Like the second one I recommended. |
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Buster

Posts: 77 Join date: 2010-08-24 Age: 29 Location: Florida, USA
 | Subject: Re: Two solid routines that work. Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:11 pm | |
| | ChimarraoMate wrote: | 2 ********************************************
If you can perform 12 Strict form chins then this one is for you:
The Gymnast's Extended Set Back Routine
This routine is for the advanced trainee only, it is inspired by the routines that Olympic gymnasts do to condition their enormous backs. You must be able to do 12 strict form shoulder width supinated chins, to do this routine.
1. Wide grip Pull-ups , as many reps as possible 2. 10 seconds rest pause 3. Medium grip Pull-ups , as many reps as possible 4. 10 seconds rest pause 5. Medium grip Chin-ups , as many reps as possible 6. 10 seconds rest pause 7. Narrow grip Chin-ups 8. Rest 3 minutes Repeat steps 1 to 8 twice, cry and curse me. |
I do this workout at least once a week and it KILLS me. I usually do steps 1-8 at least 4 times. It REALLY works out your endurance. |
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Johnny 5

Posts: 731 Join date: 2010-07-04 Age: 35 Location: San Diego
 | Subject: Re: Two solid routines that work. Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:14 pm | |
| Interesting Post.
I've just started looking into his work.
I'm a Gray Cook and Mike Boyle trained guy.
Thanks for sharing!
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ChimarraoMate

Posts: 42 Join date: 2010-10-19 Age: 41 Location: Salt Lake City
 | Subject: Re: Two solid routines that work. Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:02 pm | |
| | Italian Stallion wrote: | | ChimarraoMate wrote: | 2 ********************************************
If you can perform 12 Strict form chins then this one is for you:
The Gymnast's Extended Set Back Routine
This routine is for the advanced trainee only, it is inspired by the routines that Olympic gymnasts do to condition their enormous backs. You must be able to do 12 strict form shoulder width supinated chins, to do this routine.
1. Wide grip Pull-ups , as many reps as possible 2. 10 seconds rest pause 3. Medium grip Pull-ups , as many reps as possible 4. 10 seconds rest pause 5. Medium grip Chin-ups , as many reps as possible 6. 10 seconds rest pause 7. Narrow grip Chin-ups 8. Rest 3 minutes Repeat steps 1 to 8 twice, cry and curse me. |
I do this workout at least once a week and it KILLS me. I usually do steps 1-8 at least 4 times. It REALLY works out your endurance. |
Yes, it will get your heart rate going, but it actually is an excellent strength builder and not for endurance. Don't let the 10 second rest fool you. There are a lot of muscles at play here (just the back has 77 muscles), and the change in grip and order suggested here involves enough different muscle fibers, that the cross over is minimal. This will allow you to work each set to it's maximum. Then the 3 minutes rest should allow you to get glycogen and ATP back into the muscles before you start again for max effort. Using supersets let you get a lot of work done in a very small amount of time. Knowing your anatomy and how different range of motions impact them is key to creating good supersets and maximizing work. Remember, your best gains will come from the work you do in the first hour of training. Make every second count.
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1stratos1

Posts: 498 Join date: 2010-11-16 Age: 19 Location: Greece
 | Subject: Re: Two solid routines that work. Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:09 pm | |
| hmmm best gains come from the 1st hour? i workout about 3 hours (including warm up and calm down) so it means that only the 1st hour is so worthy? I do about 3h because i do full body so it means if i workout upper 1st legs doesnt improve that much?
Anyway i ll try maybe today ur 2 repeating 2-4 times and maybe do something like that with straight bar dips-a bit wide push ups-parallel dips- diamond push ups |
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grims
Posts: 13 Join date: 2011-04-08
 | Subject: Re: Two solid routines that work. Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:18 am | |
| ChimarraoMate, hey there. I have a couple of questions about the 1st method. So if my max is much more than 6 ,then can i still use this routine simply by deviding the max reps by half. And the second question is: can i use this routine more than 1 time a week, or is it worthless then? |
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1stratos1

Posts: 498 Join date: 2010-11-16 Age: 19 Location: Greece
 | Subject: Re: Two solid routines that work. Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:11 am | |
| I tried the 2nd today , well on wide i was ok done max after in normal as i was w8ing i done much less than my real max but the truth is that i was able to do in every exercise about 1 rep more than if i was doing all time normal with 10 secs so yeah it looks like it works and its an easy and fast way to have a workout i guess  i done the same with Dips, wide push ups , diamons and normal push ups. Thnx for the routines maybe one day i ll try ur 1st one too  |
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Buster

Posts: 77 Join date: 2010-08-24 Age: 29 Location: Florida, USA
 | Subject: Re: Two solid routines that work. Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:48 am | |
| | ChimarraoMate wrote: | | Italian Stallion wrote: | | ChimarraoMate wrote: | 2 ********************************************
If you can perform 12 Strict form chins then this one is for you:
The Gymnast's Extended Set Back Routine
This routine is for the advanced trainee only, it is inspired by the routines that Olympic gymnasts do to condition their enormous backs. You must be able to do 12 strict form shoulder width supinated chins, to do this routine.
1. Wide grip Pull-ups , as many reps as possible 2. 10 seconds rest pause 3. Medium grip Pull-ups , as many reps as possible 4. 10 seconds rest pause 5. Medium grip Chin-ups , as many reps as possible 6. 10 seconds rest pause 7. Narrow grip Chin-ups 8. Rest 3 minutes Repeat steps 1 to 8 twice, cry and curse me. |
I do this workout at least once a week and it KILLS me. I usually do steps 1-8 at least 4 times. It REALLY works out your endurance. |
Yes, it will get your heart rate going, but it actually is an excellent strength builder and not for endurance. Don't let the 10 second rest fool you. There are a lot of muscles at play here (just the back has 77 muscles), and the change in grip and order suggested here involves enough different muscle fibers, that the cross over is minimal. This will allow you to work each set to it's maximum. Then the 3 minutes rest should allow you to get glycogen and ATP back into the muscles before you start again for max effort. Using supersets let you get a lot of work done in a very small amount of time. Knowing your anatomy and how different range of motions impact them is key to creating good supersets and maximizing work. Remember, your best gains will come from the work you do in the first hour of training. Make every second count.
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Yeah, it definintely works the strength as well. The only modification I do is my first set is wide grip, followed by "regular grip", then very close grip pull ups not chin ups, then regular chin ups. |
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Uselis
Posts: 16 Join date: 2011-04-04
 | Subject: Re: Two solid routines that work. Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:29 pm | |
| Nice material  Have couple questions about it: 1.When it says every 5 day it means that Saturday and Sunday is rest days and from Monday routine starts again? 2.Lets say I am able to do 10 strict form pull ups.So I should work with 5x10 until I can reach level where i can complete 10x10?And if its true it should give me 20 repetitions after that in one single set? 3.As you said you mixed with with dips.Could this GVT method be using with 3 exercises in same day like pull ups-dips-push ups but not in one super time but as different work outs or it will lead to overtrain and method will fail? Thanks for helping |
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Mdrop

Posts: 711 Join date: 2009-10-25 Age: 23 Location: Collegeville, PA and Miami Beach, FL
 | Subject: Re: Two solid routines that work. Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:08 am | |
| aight so i tried the max pullup one today, and dam did i get a pump. Instantly. It was pretty awesome but i only got out 2 medium grip chins and 4 narrow chins, i was so dead from the first two max-outs. I made sure to use no kip BTW. I like testing out basically all of the workouts i read on the forum out and this one is def going in my arsenal. Thanks ChimarraoMate! |
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ChimarraoMate

Posts: 42 Join date: 2010-10-19 Age: 41 Location: Salt Lake City
 | Subject: Re: Two solid routines that work. Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:40 am | |
| | 1stratos1 wrote: | hmmm best gains come from the 1st hour? i workout about 3 hours (including warm up and calm down) so it means that only the 1st hour is so worthy? I do about 3h because i do full body so it means if i workout upper 1st legs doesnt improve that much?
Anyway i ll try maybe today ur 2 repeating 2-4 times and maybe do something like that with straight bar dips-a bit wide push ups-parallel dips- diamond push ups |
Warmup and Cool Down do not count. Just make sure to get a recovery shake or sports drink in after the workout before the cool down. This will help your body start to recover and protect itself.
The first hour rule has been discovered in many trials. The average person can work this long before the benefit may not outweigh the disadvantages. Again it is an average, so some guys may be able to go three hours, but others only 30 minutes. It also depends on the level of effort you are putting into you workout.
After an hour the body starts to produce a large amount of muscle eating growth inhibiting cortisol. Cortisol production is a natural response to the stress your body is under. It will make you feel better. So you may feel great, and actually be doing more damage than good. The cortisol and low ph (acid) in your blood will stay with you for a long time after your workout. Too much of it over time will eat lean fibers like muscle and bone. This can and will lead to injuries which will take you out for long periods of time; or just as bad keep you from training to your maximum potential. You have to train at max to have any real growth. And you may feel like you are at max when you are not because you are preventing yourself from ever recovering enough to hit it.
Last edited by ChimarraoMate on Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:09 am; edited 3 times in total |
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| | Two solid routines that work. | |
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