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 Dense muscle over puffy body builder muscle

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erelax



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PostSubject: Dense muscle over puffy body builder muscle   Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:30 pm

Hey chaps, I hope all is well with everyone?

Im just looking for some advice really... I was wondering how its possible to get results to have compact and dense muscle fibre instead of gigantic body builder type muscle? e.g looking like bruce lee and not like ronnie coleman. Obviously I know im not going to get like bruce, id just like to avoid becoming too bulky.

Thanks guys

-Mr semi relaxed guy
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Vladimir

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PostSubject: Re: Dense muscle over puffy body builder muscle   Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:00 pm

do calisthenics
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erelax



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PostSubject: Re: Dense muscle over puffy body builder muscle   Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:33 pm

-_-
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Tim

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PostSubject: Re: Dense muscle over puffy body builder muscle   Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:36 am

Keep in the low reps zones but do harder and harder variations,

as you work out and increase in reps you go from building strength, to hypertrophy, to muscle endurance.

So don't worry about 2000 pushups each day, and try and do 20 planche press-ups Smile

Using weightvests/belts works well too as soon as you hit about 10 reps, up the weight. Since you aren't doing lots of reps you won't bulk out much, but you will get stronger with greater resistance.

Hope this helps Smile
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csaba

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PostSubject: Re: Dense muscle over puffy body builder muscle   Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:18 pm

Tim, where does that info come from? I would suspect the opposite, since heavy weights bulk people up.
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Tim

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PostSubject: Re: Dense muscle over puffy body builder muscle   Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:41 pm

The comments on the weight vest were more me thinking on the fly at some stupid hour this morning (as opposed to the current stupid late hour it is now - i really ought to just go to bed...)

It was coming off the back of doing harder variations (particularly planche vs press-up) the effect should be similar with pull-up vs weighted pull up.

The idea is that you are increasing the difficulty of an exercise - thus working your muscles harder but only for a short period of time as you are doing small numbers of reps. This builds strength rather than size (which is built through endurance.)

One thing to note however,

With any exercise you will be increasing mass/size regardless of what it is as this is the nature of exercise. However hypertrophy mainly occurs when the muscle is exposed to long endurance work outs.

So keep your reps low (10 ish?) and keep going for harder and harder variations Smile

After a (VERY) brief look on the net, i appear to be thinking along the correct lines - not particularly scientific arguments, but if you're wanting something to read

http://www.ehow.com/how_5692449_build-dense-muscles.html

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csaba

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PostSubject: Re: Dense muscle over puffy body builder muscle   Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:49 am

ok, i see what you're saying now. and based on that article, i guess the idea is keep the reps at least above 6. i guess the puffy gym guys do only 1-5 reps. however, you shouldn't get puffy from doing higher reps, like in the BBRs, it's just that you're not building as much strength, but endurance is still important, especially in calisthenics and in life. cheers!
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Tim

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PostSubject: Re: Dense muscle over puffy body builder muscle   Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:01 am

To be honest i'm not sure you can get "puffy" muscles with calesthenics, as you're training with fairly heavy weight (% of body) always anyway.

I thought the size of Body building came from lowish weight rediculously high reps (40 for multiple sets?) (+ steriods sometimes).

Diet probably plays quite an important part as well i'd imagine.
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Tree-Trunk



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PostSubject: Re: Dense muscle over puffy body builder muscle   Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:32 pm

csaba wrote:
ok, i see what you're saying now. and based on that article, i guess the idea is keep the reps at least above 6. i guess the puffy gym guys do only 1-5 reps.

The opposite. Body builders will generally work at an intensity that is is around 70-80 % of their 1 rep max. In a rep range from 8-12. This will help facilitate maximum hypertrophy.

It is sometimes harder to calculate an intensity range for body weight exercises and just training in a certain rep range means nothing without considering the intensity (load) and set duration (time under load).

The article linked was a very poor one. I would ignore it.

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ChimarraoMate

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PostSubject: Re: Dense muscle over puffy body builder muscle   Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:23 pm

erelax wrote:
Hey chaps, I hope all is well with everyone?

Im just looking for some advice really... I was wondering how its possible to get results to have compact and dense muscle fibre instead of gigantic body builder type muscle? e.g looking like bruce lee and not like ronnie coleman. Obviously I know im not going to get like bruce, id just like to avoid becoming too bulky.

Thanks guys

-Mr semi relaxed guy

It is usually the gals asking this question, not the guys... I think as you grow, what you want will change a lot. The idea is to keep growing, whether it is strength, muscle size, balance, skill, or mentally.

To answer your question, you need to work all rep ranges and constantly change things up to make progress for any goal. Big muscles like Ronnie Colmen take many many years to develop with that specific goal in mind. Not to mention abusive steroid use. You are not going to work out for a week and then wake up looking big like that. You will know long before you get there if you are even headed in that direction. For now just work hard. As you grow, you will figure out how to work the muscles you want to grow or shrink.

For example: I wanted a smaller waist line after hitting 7% bf, so I had to cut out the deadlifts for three weeks, and then reduce the volume. It worked like a charm.

Now if burring fat and gaining lean muscle mass is your goal, look at HIIT training. It is much better than cardio. To much cardio will make you a skinny fat person. Take a look at a "serious" marathon runner. You can do HIIT with calisthenics, lifting weights, or running. The more muscles involved and the more joints moving the better. HIIT produces lactic acid, which opens up the lactic pathway. The result is your body producing a large amount of HGH. I'll keep it short and not get into the chemistry of it all, but HGH will cause your body to shed fat rapidly while still allowing you to gain strength and lean muscle mass. Follow that with a clean diet and you will get where you want to go rapidly.

Another form of extreme HIIT training is German Body Composition or GBC. Do not confuse this with German Volume Training. They are completely different animals. Most Bar-barian workouts could be classified as a form of GBC.
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mgraham404

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PostSubject: Re: Dense muscle over puffy body builder muscle   Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:53 pm

ChimarraoMate wrote:

Now if burring fat and gaining lean muscle mass is your goal, look at HIIT training. It is much better than cardio. To much cardio will make you a skinny fat person. Take a look at a "serious" marathon runner.

I've always thought this argument was ridiculous. Marathon runners aren't looking to get big or extremely fast, so comparing them with sprinters is a completely different thing. Most people who are doing traditional cardio aren't going to be doing the 50+ miles a week that marathon runners are since general conditioning, fat loss, and extreme endurance are very separate goals requiring very separate training routines. If you want to compare people who are mainly doing traditional cardio while focusing on calisthenics exercise with people doing interval training as cardio and focusing on calisthenics exercise it would be a better argument. I'd also point out the Chinese male gymnastics team that does traditional running at around 15 miles a week. They're some of the strongest gymnasts in the world, especially upper body (check out their rings specialists), and I don't think that traditional cardio is hurting them in any way.

In short, endurance (serious marathon runners) and power (sprinting) are two different beasts. If you want to run marathons you're not going to build up a lot of mass to carry that 26.2 miles which will necessitate a different style of strength training. The different style of running isn't what is building all of that muscle or leaving the marathoners as skinny as they are.
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ChimarraoMate

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PostSubject: Re: Dense muscle over puffy body builder muscle   Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:25 pm

mgraham404 wrote:
ChimarraoMate wrote:

Now if burring fat and gaining lean muscle mass is your goal, look at HIIT training. It is much better than cardio. To much cardio will make you a skinny fat person. Take a look at a "serious" marathon runner.

I've always thought this argument was ridiculous. Marathon runners aren't looking to get big or extremely fast, so comparing them with sprinters is a completely different thing. Most people who are doing traditional cardio aren't going to be doing the 50+ miles a week that marathon runners are since general conditioning, fat loss, and extreme endurance are very separate goals requiring very separate training routines. If you want to compare people who are mainly doing traditional cardio while focusing on calisthenics exercise with people doing interval training as cardio and focusing on calisthenics exercise it would be a better argument. I'd also point out the Chinese male gymnastics team that does traditional running at around 15 miles a week. They're some of the strongest gymnasts in the world, especially upper body (check out their rings specialists), and I don't think that traditional cardio is hurting them in any way.

In short, endurance (serious marathon runners) and power (sprinting) are two different beasts. If you want to run marathons you're not going to build up a lot of mass to carry that 26.2 miles which will necessitate a different style of strength training. The different style of running isn't what is building all of that muscle or leaving the marathoners as skinny as they are.

Actually, many folks have mistakenly taken this route to burn fat, and learn the hard way when they lose to much muscle. Normal Cardio Burns Calories, plain and simple. In fact, with the elevated heart rate, more come from food and lean muscle mass than from fat. On average maybe 25-40% comes from fat depending on intensity. 15 miles a week is not very far and not what I would define as to much cardio if you are also strength training. I used to run 10 - 12 miles a day, six days a week, or ride my bike 50 miles a day. I learned the hard way. 2-3 days a week of limited cardio is fine when you are training for strength and muscle gains. For me, I get plenty from HITT without the risk of catabolizing muscle I just built.

FYI: At rest, you can burn fat at a rate of 60%-80%. That is why diet and having the right hormones being released while you are resting is the fastest way to use up fat energy.
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raja



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PostSubject: Re: Dense muscle over puffy body builder muscle   Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:48 pm

To the OP: Work in the low rep range. 1 - 5 reps. Try to keep the overall volume to a minimum while making progress in strength. Don't eat drastically more than maintenance.

It takes lots of hard work and big eating to get big. You won't wake up one day with 20" arms without specifically training for them or eating big.
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mgraham404

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PostSubject: Re: Dense muscle over puffy body builder muscle   Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:33 am

ChimarraoMate wrote:
Actually, many folks have mistakenly taken this route to burn fat, and learn the hard way when they lose to much muscle... ...For me, I get plenty from HITT without the risk of catabolizing muscle I just built.

I'm not against HIIT at all. I throw HIIT sprints in every now and then, but I am mainly doing a regular pace instead of always doing intervals. I don't think it's necessary for my goals right now and I like the meditative feel of running at the same pace for a few miles.

All I was saying is that comparing marathon runners, who train to be marathon runners, to sprinters, who train to be sprinters, is a comparison that ignores the entire principle of specificity or that these people made a conscious decision to train to be good marathon runners or good sprinters. Once you start venturing past 20 miles per week you're not looking at just trying to become well conditioned.
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